I personally think there are tons of ways to make this style gown. The Magdalena portrait sketch here: http://cgfa.dotsrc.org/weyden/p-weyden13.htm Shows the lines beneath the bust again and they just look to "perfect" to be a crease. Now, that maybe it all it is but the crease appears in a lot of paintings and illuminations from the late 14th into the 15th c. The extant gaments seem to more mimic the known Italian styles of the time as in: http://cgfa.dotsrc.org/angelico/p-angeli26.htm Which are very different in style to the laced fitted gowns.
And there is evidence of back lacing in the later 1400's, just not at this point. I forget the illumination but there is one where the lady has her back turned (around 1490 I think?) and you can clearly see lacing up the back.
By no means am I saying I'm right but I'm just taking a slightly different interpretations of the various illuminations and paintings. Plus, I think you were looking at later (post 1450) while I was looking at earlier (pre 1450) so the styles could have changed (and drastically at that point).
On the Effigy of the Countess of Warwick you can also see a line beneath the bust. This was made a good 70 years prior so some of the lines of the gowns had changed (particularly the necklines) but the bust line remained. http://vieuxchamps.com/persona/enlarged/wg/wpic5.php
Even on Cecco d’Ascoli: L’Acerba; Physionomia's, the green lady which is the first picture up on http://www.cottesimple.com the underbust line exists.
Now, yes, this could all be creases or a way to do shawdowing but the lines look too perfectly across and not "rounded" to my eyes to be creases. They just look more like seams. Later on, this looks to be done away with and the under arms are given more material (aka, they figured out shaping) to accommodate the bust.
Just a different interpretation of what we have left from the late 14th into the 15th century. :-) (Personally, from what I've seen, there were a bunch of different types of gowns. Some were loose, some were fitted, some had the seam under the bust, some didn't, some made you look flat chested and some required a belt under the bust to keep everything up. Just like today, they had more than one style to wear out.)
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2007-11-20 12:50 pm (UTC)http://cgfa.dotsrc.org/weyden/p-weyden13.htm
Shows the lines beneath the bust again and they just look to "perfect" to be a crease. Now, that maybe it all it is but the crease appears in a lot of paintings and illuminations from the late 14th into the 15th c.
The extant gaments seem to more mimic the known Italian styles of the time as in:
http://cgfa.dotsrc.org/angelico/p-angeli26.htm
Which are very different in style to the laced fitted gowns.
And there is evidence of back lacing in the later 1400's, just not at this point. I forget the illumination but there is one where the lady has her back turned (around 1490 I think?) and you can clearly see lacing up the back.
By no means am I saying I'm right but I'm just taking a slightly different interpretations of the various illuminations and paintings. Plus, I think you were looking at later (post 1450) while I was looking at earlier (pre 1450) so the styles could have changed (and drastically at that point).
On the Effigy of the Countess of Warwick you can also see a line beneath the bust. This was made a good 70 years prior so some of the lines of the gowns had changed (particularly the necklines) but the bust line remained.
http://vieuxchamps.com/persona/enlarged/wg/wpic5.php
Even on Cecco d’Ascoli: L’Acerba; Physionomia's, the green lady which is the first picture up on http://www.cottesimple.com the underbust line exists.
Now, yes, this could all be creases or a way to do shawdowing but the lines look too perfectly across and not "rounded" to my eyes to be creases. They just look more like seams. Later on, this looks to be done away with and the under arms are given more material (aka, they figured out shaping) to accommodate the bust.
Just a different interpretation of what we have left from the late 14th into the 15th century. :-) (Personally, from what I've seen, there were a bunch of different types of gowns. Some were loose, some were fitted, some had the seam under the bust, some didn't, some made you look flat chested and some required a belt under the bust to keep everything up. Just like today, they had more than one style to wear out.)