Actual Garb research

[isabelladangelo]

http://www.wga.hu/art/s/solari/andrea/salome.jpg

I LOVE this gown. I know that it looks completely allegorical except for a couple of things: None of the other objects look allegorical and then I found these as well:

http://www.wga.hu/art/d/durer/2/12/1_1500/10cather.jpg
Notice the sleeve of St. Catherine's dress and the neckline. I realize it's hard to see but the sleeve is a rounded tab type like the pretty gown of Salome. And just to further the point...

http://www.wga.hu/art/m/michelan/4drawing/3colonna.jpg
The dress has the same basic elements of Salome's.

I'm starting to wonder how allegorical this one is. I still want it as a Masque gown either way.

Comments

[msmcknittington.livejournal.com]

I totally thought that Salome had a tattoo on her breast in the first picture, until I zoomed in and realized it was an actual rose tucked in her chemise. I nearly died laughing.

The cut of the neckline on Salome's dress is also historically accurate. A lot of Venetian dresses toward the end of the 16th century (I want to say 1580s, but it might be 1570s) have that entirely below the bust cut.

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

That's the interesting thing about all the pictures...although I think the first one is later the other two aren't. One is from 1500 and the other is 1520 (I think)
But yeah on the neckline. Those silly Venetians and their immodest gowns! There were also some very low cut gowns around the 1520's. In some paintings it looks like they were a jacket or bodice to cover the bust area but on others there is only the chemise there.

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

Nope, the first one doesn't have a date but the painter died in 1525 so...gets a little bit more interesting...

[florentinescot.livejournal.com]

See, I'm not completely certain that I buy into the whole "That's only allegorical" mindset.

The idea from that style of garb had to come from somewhere -- and the same style show up a lot. Did the artists copy from each other ... they could have. There's also an awful lot of artwork that's no longer extant. I remember looking for a *color* copy of the painting of Anne of Denmark (I think it was) and not ever finding one -- until I noticed that it had been in Dresden ....

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

I try really hard not to buy into the "only allegorical" because I have seen a lot of things that people have told me "that's allegorical" and I later find three or four other paintings by different artists with the same elements. (One time someone told me the bodice and skirt was allegorical. I think I have over 25 paintings proving otherwise from the 16th c)

But in this case the outfit was just off from anything I'd ever seen before that I wasn't sure how real it was. (Like I said, masque gown!) But with the other drawings, I'm pretty sure I can make a descent case for it not being allegorical.

[florentinescot.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, but are you sure that they're not all saints?

ducking and running now .....

I guess it depends on how you define "bodice and skirt"

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

My definition is here:
http://www.freewebs.com/isabelladangelo/bodiceandskirtcombo.htm

Lots and lots of purtty pictures.

[florentinescot.livejournal.com]

I think that some of those might be doublets over kirtles.

I got some questions about the "Odd Gowns" page ...

The green and white particolored gown -- do you know who the artist is? That's just cool.

above the block with the Solari paintings ... you have 2 paintings from an Austrian site. Unfortunately they're small *pout* wants bigger images ... anyway, do you know anything about those two paintings? Artist? Source? anything? That would be these two
http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7016678.JPG
http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/images/7016634.JPG

That first one reminds me of an SCA event -- looks like you've got a parti-colored cotehardie and a late-period spanish right in the front row of the dance! How cool is that?

And the last painting ... do you know anything about it?

just call me tha painting whore .....

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

For the green and white, the artist is Jacob d'Utrecht, I think. They give two Jacobs (Jacob Claesz being the other one) on the site where I found it but it is early 16th c.

As for the Austrian site, they change their layout so much that I have no clue how I originally got those. I want to say it's from their altar page,
http://tarvos.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/altar/Eine_Werkstatt_in_Bruneck1.php
but even if it isn't, you'll find a ton of other neat gowns. I just added another one; faux red hair in the headdress with NO chemise sleeves and black lacing at the sleeves! She's showin' skin!

[florentinescot.livejournal.com]

oooh ... going to look now .....

evil woman .....

[mdrf-prax.livejournal.com]

Ok.. I had to look up some of those words... BUT! If I was a painting, and I had the dress from that first picture... I could TOTALLY be her!

What would you charge for that?

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

Because of the beading and embroidery, unfortunately a lot. It looks like close to 200 pearls plus a lot of gold embroidery. I can use fake pearls (although why bother when I can get freshwater for $2 a strand?) and just machine sew on gold bands but that a)wouldn't look as nice and b)you still wouldn't get the gold embroider around the bodice.
For the fabric it would depend on what you want. Linen or twill is easier to work with (for me) than most silks or velvets. So linen would be slightly less and twill would be the cheapest. For the skirt, bodice, sleeves, and chemise, out of twill I'd gauge around $350. That's mostly because of the odd shapes in the gown.