Project

[isabelladangelo]

I've decided I need to make this. I have the silk out for the gown and the organza for the partlet. I need some thing blue ribbon with gold edging. I have more the enough pearls to do the partlet.
My question, the sleeves. I think they are just "strips" of fabric with embroidery faux tied with the beaded aglets. Any other ideas? My problem is that the sleeves are very hard to see so I'm basing this solely on other portraits of her.
I'm also kinda curious about that neckline of the gown. Is it just stitching or is there some very thing strips of fabric being curved over to the inside?
EDIT: I remembered that a lady on the showcase at Realm of Venus had done a similar gown as well and had tried her hand at the neckline. I found an interesting take on the neckline there. I think I'll try and do this since it makes sense with what I'm seeing and it's something I can do. /edit


I'm going to use the extant gown of Eleanor as a guide to make this one. It should work... Yes, I have gold embroidery thread. The neckline should be fairly easy...it's the sleeves that will kill me on this one.

Comments

[dawnhutchings.livejournal.com]

Do you have a copy of the Tudor Tailor? The sleeves look like a version of the ones on the cover. It looks like the fabric is more slashed/cut open to show the fabric underneath then being "strips" of fabric.

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

I know I'm probably to only person in the re-enacting/historical costuming world who has done this but....I picked up Tudor Tailor once and put it back down...laughing. The reason is that the vast majority of the info in there is almost exactly the same as Patterns of Fashion. The few things that aren't are pure conjecture (including a few things I simply do not agree with). It's okay, you can all look at me in horror now. I know, I have spat upon one of the great costuming bibles...

The idea of mini slashes probably comes from the extant 1560's Florentine/Naples (?) gown. The sleeves on that are clearly mini slashes. However, in both the painting I posted and in the one of Elenora and her son (http://www.karen.htmlcreators.com/fleleonora.jpg) you can see panels held together by "something". In the case of the son portrait, it's buttons.

I did some searches at one in the morning and did find that firenzekat had done the same style gown. I'm pouring over her research right (http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/diaries/Eleanor-Medici%20mid%2016thC.htm) now.

[dawnhutchings.livejournal.com]

Ah I see now from her website how she did the arms. That kind of nifty, you can line each piece and sew them together at points along the seam. Very cool.

my two cents

[cathgrace.livejournal.com]

When I did my Eleonora paned sleeve I used a bent sleeve pattern that had a front and back seam. I then split the middle of each of those pieces creating 4 pieces. I added seam allowances to all the pieces, lined and finished each of them individually then measured which points I wanted to join with the buttons (in your case beads) and tacked them together there and added the button. This give a structured tidy sleeve that is nicely shaped when one is naturally allowing their arm to drape naturally. One can also add strips of linen to permanently puff through if one doesn’t want to worry about pulling one’s chemise through. I think the neckline is pinked. (I would also advise couching the gold design rather then embroidering it)

Re: my two cents

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Is there any reason why you chose a bent sleeve versus a straight sleeve pattern? Is one more historically accurate than the other or is it personal preference? Normally, for sleeves, I do something that looks like a giant trapezoid. This works well for the early 16th c (late 15th c) gowns but doesn't look nearly as neat for the later upper class/nobility outfits.

Yeah, after I said embroider the neckline I realized it would probably be easier on my poor fingers and most likely closer to what was really going on to simple couch the design on the dress. Now to go find a few hundred yards of gold cord...hmm...

Re: my two cents

[dawnhutchings.livejournal.com]

Would you be able to make the gold cord? Either by Fingerloop braiding or Lucet. Of course that could be just as much of a pain as embrodiering.

Re: my two cents

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

Of the many fiber arts I have tried, lucet is the only one that I have zero skill at. However, I also need this in a couple of months so I'm going to take the cheap and easy way out by going to wally world and just buying up their stock of gold cord. :-)

Re: my two cents

[firenzekat.livejournal.com]

I suck at lucet braid too! I actually broke a wooden lucet once because my tension is waayyyy too tight. I mainly either to finger braiding or twisting the braid. I find it much cheaper than buying braid. It does take more time. I can do a few metres of fingerbraiding in a night. It is a good thing to do while watching telly...
I made all of the cording for D's doublet that way.
http://katerina.purplefiles.net/Dafydd/Dafydd%27s%20doublet%20embroidery.htm
and for this black padded doublet as well.
Bonus is I can buy yarn in the colour I want for the cording.
well worth the effort, I think.
:)
I also do fingerbraiding for most of my dress cords.

Re: my two cents

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

I'll try finger braiding again. I think I did it once a while ago and it came out okay. Just with all the other sewing projects on my plate for this summer, and the fact I want this one done by late July, I just went out and bought the cord. Walmart is now out of their stock of thing gold cord( a little over 8 meters/9 yards). It's enough to do the neckline at the very least.
There are a couple of other projects I've been thinking about for winter that I might try some simple braids for. :-)

Re: my two cents

[firenzekat.livejournal.com]

That is the only drawback on making your own braiding, is the time spent.

Re: my two cents

[cathgrace.livejournal.com]

I chose a bent sleeve because it is more period and it makes sense if you think about it. When in a full 16th century gown your natural inclination is to stand with your hands either folded in front of yourself, or just slightly bent, we actually very rarely stand with our arms stick straight. If you use a completely straight sleeve pattern then you tend to get a wrinkle or a bunch where your elbow bend is, stressing the tacked points of the paning and just not looking as pretty as it could. The bent arm is more natural and tidy looking.

[jazz-in-paris.livejournal.com]

Happy (late) Birthday!! :)

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I've been celebrating all week. :-)

[florentinescot.livejournal.com]

I"ll second that. I've been hiding under A Grade Book and have just now come up for air.

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

Thanks! You only have a couple of more weeks, right?

[florentinescot.livejournal.com]

nay, nay, dear friend. I'm done, DONE, I say till the first of June! Grades is in, and graduation was last Friday. :-)

[firenzekat.livejournal.com]

Hi... ah, Eleanora.
My favourite time and place!
:)
If it helps, I have done some research on this era. If you look at both La Moda a Firenze and Patterns of fashion, there are examples of the neckline.
I have what I have found here:
http://katerina.purplefiles.net/DOCO/construction.html
and my first experiment with this at:
http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/diaries/Linen%20Sottana%20with%20period%20techniques.html
Sleeves: My take was similar to the portrait of her with her son. Strips that are held together with aglets.
I gave this a go at:
http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/diaries/Eleanor-Medici%20mid%2016thC.htm
I think using Eleanora's burial dress is a good idea. Though the burial dress is 1562, and the red dress is earlier, there are many similarities. The same 'court tailor' was also being used for these times.
If you have access to Patterns of Fashion, then there are many titbits to help there.
If you need more info, let me know
:)

[firenzekat.livejournal.com]

oh, and I have recently made a 'version' of the camicia. Maybe the info might help
:)
http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/diaries/KatsFlorentine%20Camicia.html

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much! I'll be pouring over this for the next couple of days. :-) How has the neckline held up?

[firenzekat.livejournal.com]

Really well, actually.
On one dress, I did use fabric glue to reduce fraying (it was a damask that frayed very easily). The linen dress had no treatment for the 'slashes' on the neckline.The strip was done on the bias in all cases. THis helps a lot.
I have also used the same 'snipped' edging on my zimmara and my dutch cloak. The dutch cloak gets a lot of wear and is 'chucked around' a lot.
:)