Just curious

[isabelladangelo]

This is something I've noticed a lot in the past but it seems to have gotten worse this year. That is women "displaying" themselves. It has gotten to the point where I found out (and have overheard many times) that some mundanes are refusing to come back until the faire kicks out those that aren't covered up. I realize this tends to be a firey topic (for my faire going friends. Not so much for the H/A ladies and gentlemen) but I also know that no one wants to see any faire close because a few playtrons have in there minds to take their hedonism to a level that interrupts the enjoyment of faire for other people. Let's face it, for most faires, if only the people in garb showed up, they'd close in a weekend. It's the mundanes, that come to see the majesty of it all, that tend to keep these places running.

I've told the people I know who have refused to come back to faire with me because of the inappropriateness of dress to write to the faire and demand that they have people either buy a t-shirt to cover up or go home.

My questions are: have other people noticed an increase in inappropriate dress/behavior this year? And have you had problems with mundanes not wanting to come because of a bad incident (either garb or language related)?

Comments

[sstormwatch.livejournal.com]

How undressed are these people?

We have a guild of barbarians, dressed in minimal "clothing" (leather loincloth and capes) that are at some events. That's about as undressed as I've seen, except for the occasional chain mail bikini wearing women.

The worst offense I have witnessed had to do with a blacksmith vendor standing naked getting blown by some woman just at the end of a faire in full view of anyone who cared to look their way. This was some years back, and yes it was reported (I was on the faire board), he may have been arrested (the park of the faire is literally next door to the police dept), and yes, he never was invited back to that faire (or any other I know of) again.

[tudorlady.livejournal.com]

OMG. WTF. IN DAYLIGHT?????????

While I can't swear this has never happened at an event, I honestly don't think it's happened where uninvolved people could see it.

This just staggers me.

[sstormwatch.livejournal.com]

Yes, they did it in daylight (actually early evening 5pm-ish), at a family faire, in the open, in a city park. We so were not happy at all about it. Thankfully, this is a very rare event, and got them tossed.

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

This year the problem seems to be underbust "bodices" with semi-sheer transparent-if-you-look-right tops. Basically, rather than cleavage, it's two mounds of fat bouncing everywhere with rather full exposure.

I've also hear of a case of "wardrobe" malfunction or three where even the top wasn't there.

I *think* they've stopped the barbarians now from coming in and demanded they get dressed. The clothing rules changed this year. It had gotten bad. Some people just don't get the concept that you need more fabric to cover yourself than your three year old does.

One of the other complaints I've been hearing is one that cathgrace touched on. The shows have gotten a bit more bawdy. It's hard to keep the kids away when they people singing/telling jokes are using a sound system.

Also, one of the shows is just plain offensive. It's rated pg, I think but it's very anti-Catholic and it has nothing to do with Henry VIII. (aka, one of the court shows where, yeah, Henry might say something against the Pope or something like that at the time)

There has just been enough feedback I've been getting from a rather large group of people now that say they won't come back that I'm starting to get curious as to whether it's just the people I tend to be around or if it really has gotten worse.

[sestree.livejournal.com]

I've noticed the underbust with sheer chemises being quite common. I find it unattractive on larger women but I try not to judge what others feel is comfortable.

You've seen what I wear. That's about as racy as I get.

Catch me next time you're at faire and tell me which show it is. I can't place one that makes anti-Catholic jokes but truthfully I've rather gotten off of most of the shows anyway. I watch The Pirates and The Pretty French Boys (very G rated in the latter case) and that's truthfully about it.

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

I find it unattractive altogether. It's those types of outfits I've been hearing a lot of complaints about.

Yeah, I don't think you are bad. I'm thinking it's the "you ain't hidin' nothin' up top" ones that people are getting worried about. I've also seen some guy feeling up some random girl right in front of one of the booths. I yelled at them because I was cranky on Sunday and they did stop but it's like no one can *think* outside their own world anymore.

It's the Witch Trial one. I've only heard blurps from it and each time it's either a) modern political jokes or b) Catholic bashing. Either way, it's not appropriate for the Renaissance faire.

[sestree.livejournal.com]

OK, I've never seen that one -- never had an interest in it truth be told. Is it rated PG13? I stay mostly to the musical groups -- that's why I go actually, is to hear live music.

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what it is rated but he walks around a lot and tells some of the jokes to passing patrons and...they are rather offensive. I stick to the musical acts or the sword guy but that's about it anymore.

[sstormwatch.livejournal.com]

The only way things will change is if people take the time to complain, and not return until things change. When the gate drops, people in charge get the hint.

As to things getting worse, I guess it depends on the area and faire in question. My area, the stuff you've mentioned is sadly the norm, usually among patrons, not the faire folk who do tend to stay more covered (except that barbarian guild). Our belly dancers now wear a lot less (different group then the original Ottomans who know historical clothing covered them up a lot more). The shows are all pretty raunchy, including very colorful commentary. But I've yet to hear political rants or anything anti-religion, since we are in a conservative area in general. The adults love them, and we warn families with kids that they are indeed PG13 or worse. We also have a lot of guilds who do G rated shows, including having time with the Monarch where we hand out coloring posters and little ribbon favors.

And wardrobe malfunctions around here happen. Usually we tell the people, and only once has the woman not cared that I know of. As to the mounds of fat under sheer bodices... if the actors want to dress as whores, the other actors will treat them as whores... verbally that is. We don't touch, but we do comment. If they are patrons... not much we can do about that, so long as they aren't breaking laws.

And there is a reason my kids still don't go to faires. I might enjoy the bawdy, but they are too young.

[cathgrace.livejournal.com]

I have to say that the MD faire basically put us off of going all together. It was not a family environment, the children's shows had beer jokes, people were not dressed appropriately, and I felt like I was walking through a pg-13 movie that I had never seen before with my kids. It was not horrible, but I was basically waiting for that moment I would need to divert their attention far far away. It's kind of sad because they love the jousting, but I couldn't handle the crap. I think it's sad that so many people don't think family fun and "real fun" are compatible.

[sestree.livejournal.com]

It's a fine line they walk between faire and family friendly. I'd never recommend Puke and Snot for families, and then again they're marked PG13.

Having said that, I don't remember any of the Robin Hood shows having beer jokes. I haven't seen one in a year or two.

Maybe I'm immuned a bit to the undressed/over exposed part. I took my kids (they were possibly older -- Montana was 9 when he first started going with me) and wasn't too worried about it. Sporkey was pretty much raised at faire (a friend's child) and he's ok for the most part :D

I concur with Jubilee though - bring it to the attention of the faire staff. They really do work hard to make it family friendly. I remember the concern the year that Anne Boleyn was beheaded. She had quite a following amongst some young girls and it had to be handled carefully. Come to think of it, I think most - if not all - of the court shows are G rated.

p.s. -- I don't overexpose do to my personal choice ... plus that and the fact I sunburn like crazy.

[cathgrace.livejournal.com]

The Robin Hood show was one of the ones that specifically drove us away. Last year they kept making beer jokes, with a "ha, ha, don't worry kids! we make these jokes so you parents will stay awake in the audience!" It wasn't just once or twice, but throughout the whole show. And the worst part is, it was kind of true, even though we were at the 11:00 a.m. showing there were parents in the audience slightly worse for drink and they were the parents brought on stage to be the villains, because it was "funnier." Honestly we would have left if my son wasn't in the show because having my children see middle of the day drunk adults isn't my idea of fun or an appropriate example for my kids. But I also live in a pretty G rated world with my kids, I figure there is plenty of time for them to hear and see the worst things the world has to offer, right now while I can I want to keep them shiny and new for as long as I can.

[sestree.livejournal.com]

ahhhh see I haven't seen the Robin Hood show for a couple of years. I didn't know it had gotten that bad. I usually watch it from the Horn place across the way.

I will admit the raving drunks early in the day aren't uncommon (and yes I've been one in my cups but not raving usually) but I see that more from the ungarbed than the garbed folks.

I understand wanting to keep them in a G rated atmosphere as long as possible.

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

I think it's sad that so many people don't think family fun and "real fun" are compatible.

Absolutely! Personally, I've been sticking to the more musical shows this year (the Rogues, the Medieval Babes, ect) because some of the shows have gotten so offensive. One show in particular, I plan on writing the faire myself because I've heard him say some very anti-Catholic things and make nothing but modern political jokes for an hour. Uh, isn't the purpose of faire to get away from modern nonsense?

[sestree.livejournal.com]

I really haven't noticed too many being over exposed in the recent years. I remember my first 2 seasons, one of the pickle sellers would bend over just so they 'popped' out. That has stopped as far as I can tell.

Certain places tend to be a bit wilder (The White Hart, back deck of O'Shucks, but there are just as many places that aren't gathering places that are family friendly. One of the things The Interpreters mentions is that The White Hart is a bar -- if you bring your kids in, don't blame them if the kids get the jokes.

I mentioned in another comment that the Robin Hood shows seemed pretty tame the last time I saw them. I also don't remember the Court shows being above a G rating, though Anne Boleyn's walk to execution was pretty intense. The joust is also G rated is it not?

It is a touchy subject. Yes we do have people in leather bra tops. However, you'd see less coverage at the beach and most people have no issues taking kids to a beach or a swimming pool.

Maybe it's all in perception?

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

I think you actually see more coverage at the beach or the swimming pool in the few cases I've seen for myself. Most people try to get swim suits that, at least, hold everything in place and keep 'em covered. There just isn't any self checking, there seems, at the faire. And it seems to have gotten worse. When I have my own Mom turn to me (who has come to the faire at least once a year with me) and say "Thank God you cover up!" when we are just walking down towards the Bee Folks, it's gotten pretty bad.

The shows: Like in the comment above, there is one show I just won't go to anymore because it's nothing more than modern political jokes and Catholic bashing. I do plan on writing the faire about it but the fact he was allowed to go on with this in the first place is disturbing.

[weebaby.livejournal.com]

Disclaimer: I don't really like the Faire anyway. To me, its just a big shopping mall that I can't afford. I can't even afford alcohol to make me forget I'm broke!

I have a huge problem going to a place advertising itself as a "Renaissance Faire" and then seeing most of the attendees wearing leather bustiers with bare bellies. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen any paintings depicting that kind of garb.

I agree that those clothes cover up more than what you see at a beach, but that's not the point. The point is that I'm at a Renaissance fair, not a Fantasy fair.

Separate issue for me - cigarette smoke

[ren_flora.livejournal.com]

Last time I went to Faire (two years ago), it was a disappointment. The three shows we went to were just not very funny. I can appreciate creative bawdy jokes, but they were just using bathroom humor. It just wasn't worth it.

My biggest problem was getting sick from the cigarette smoke hanging everywhere. Ick.